We are all well aware of the emotional costs of divorce: the fights, the infidelity, the children coming from broken homes shunned by their peers, teachers and clergymen. But let’s take a moment to reflect on the most important cost of divorce: money.
Money is something our state has precious little of. Recent estimates have projected a state budget gap of more than $20 billion. Even with a rigorous program of slashing taxes and ending social services for the poor, it is doubtful that the budget gap could be eliminated anytime soon. That’s where we come in.
The fine folks at the Institute for American Values conducted fair and balanced research into the real cost of divorce for California and came up with $4.8 billion annually as a conservative estimate. When divided by the population of the state that breaks down to $133.74 for every man, woman or child – enough for 26 “Super-Sized” value meals annually. We can’t afford that kind of waste.
Even the Legislative Analyst’s Office admits that our initiative banning divorce would provide “savings to the state of up to hundreds of millions of dollars annually for support of the court system due to the elimination of divorce proceedings.”
So the question isn’t “Should we ban divorce?” The question is “Can we afford not to?”
John Marcotte is a firm believer in traditional family values. He currently opposes government-funded death panels, Obama talking to children and MSNBC's entire prime-time line-up. 
This article is so right on! With the state cutting back on social services, money for schools, etc., it is a fine time to consider the cost of the godless, souless individuals seeking to end their commitment to their family, their community, of course most importantly, God. Clearly the costs of divorce are far more than emotional and spiritual…thanks for keeping us informed!
Yours in the fight,
tammy.
But what about all those divorce lawyers? Without making several hundreds of dollars an hour off of other people’s misery, how can they expect to support themselves? Next thing you know they will be at the food bank snapping up all the foie gras. Please, think of the divorce lawyers.
The Divorce Lawyers are already lining up to lobby against the Divorce Ban. They’re like vultures feeding off offal when others are feeling awful. What are three lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? A good start. Those are my feelings. if feelings are allowed here.
I don’t see why my hard-earned tax dollars should be lavished on these matrimonial dilettantes and quitters. If Californians want to break the sacred marital contract that the state provided them in good faith, they can always leave and go live in Russia. No to divorce!!!
How is it that your hard earned dollars and mine have anything to do with this topic? Last time I heard, the persons involved in divorce have to pay for their own. They have to pay a filing fee, as well as the actuall paper work and attorney fees. So how is that dipping into your pocket?
Brenda,
The costs to the taxpayers are astronomical. To start with, the court filing fee does not even cover a small fraction of the cost. A contested divorce (which is the majority of them) results in dozens of court hearings. Sometimes the number exceeds a hundred. The court hearings continue for years after the divorce if
finalized due to the child custody, child support, and alimony disputes. If you are from the OC, take a field trip down to the Lamoreaux Justice Center in the City of Orange (across from the Block). This is the family court in OC and while you can’t go into the courtrooms like a regular courthouse, you can witness the hundreds of people in attendance daily.
The Court costs are only the start. They don’t begin to cover the cost of the police responding to keep the peace anytime the former lovebirds needs to be in each other’s presence. There is also the issue of filing multiple violation of court order reports because one of the parents was late to the child custody exchange. The divorced segment of society has become so uncivilized, and is so out of control, that most judges now mandate that divorced parents conduct their child custody exchanges in the parking lots of the nearest police station.
The last, and by far the highest, cost is the irreparable damage done to the children. These freaks that stood up once upon a time and swore to love their partner forever almost always turn into serial child abusers during the divorce due to the infliction of emotional abuse. They use the children like a wishbone and try to poison the child’s mind against the other parent. They commit acts of violence and aggression in front of the child. They CREATE an environment that almost always includes law enforcement. The most pathetic part is that they don’t care one bit about the emotional trauma this causes the kids. This guarantees that the costs I have outlined above will go on forever because the children are going to grow up and repeat the cycle.
Don’t kid yourself; banning divorce will absolutely save hundreds of millions of dollars over time. More importantly than that, it may spare some of society’s children from a lifetime of psychological problems caused by these divorces. End divorce NOW before it ends us.
STOP TAXPAYER-SUBSIDIZED DIVORCE NOW!!!
Half of that 4.8 billion is just from celebrities alone.
Well when God’s handmaiden Sarah Palin takes Her rightful place as ruler of America, all those godless Hollyweird libs will go live with the cheese chomping surrender munkys anyway. You might be a unwiting dupe of the church of Rome but praise Jesus, you’re helping us end divorce and clean up California. Red state once, red state again!
Sounds like you need to move Iran, bozo.
Jesus loves you, el pinche, and that’s why He won’t force you to folow His way. He loves you so much He will send you to eternal punishment in Hell instead.
Get a life, stay out of mine and clean up around your own door step first.
100% against divorce myself. There has been no santity of marrige for the past 60 years in this country. So get off and leave the rest of us alone.
Maybe you should read your Bible mre,,Christian!
$4.8 billion. That would buy a lot of Robitussin!
Or Tums.
enough for 26 “Super-Sized” value meals annually
…oh my Gawd!
Why if we make divorce illegal we could make sure every hungry poor child can eat Mickey D’s! Now that’s Compashionate Conservative, praise God! Why do all libtards hate childrens?
“Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning?”
Are you really that ignorant? You have been married for what, 7 years? I was married to a man for 18 years, that whole time I was beaten, choked, threatend, and raped. You mean to tell me that my divorcing him was not okay with you? You may have your opinion on how your religion is explained to you, but let me tell you. I am sure that GOD didn’t put us on this earth to be abused. And if you are really getting down to religion, I think you might want to check a few things. ( i am not saying I am all for this, as I am a Christian woman ) But if you read the very first book of the Old and New testament…it tells you who begot who…and in the same BIBLE it states that incest is a sin. It also says ” that man shall not kill another man “, but yet there are wars… it also states that man shall not judge another, and that’s exactly what you are doing. It great that you believe that marriage should last forever, I do to..but there are times when you can’t stay married to the person you fell in love with…there are times you just fell out of love with them, as they change. My first marriage, you know the one I just talked about, he was not at all abusive in the beginning, he grew into it. I have 4 kids by this man, and he has no contact with them…(his choice) So tell me, what would you have done? I am sure you can’t answer that because I have tried everything. People have the right to make up their own minds on what is right for them. You don’t have that right, you sir are not GOD.
@brenda
I am very sorry to hear about your terrible situation. I also don’t believe anyone should be abused. Lots of people use religion to suit their double-standards, and supporters of prop8 did judge others and play the part of G-d. The California Protection of Marriage Act is just giving them another chance to show their true colors.
Sooo, let me get this straight. “I’m sorry you had that happen to you, BUT the bigger problem is not that domestic violence kills x amount of women each year, or that it perpetuates decades of trauma, violence, and depression/anxiety, low quality of life, ect. for millions of women and children. No the bigger problem is that 2 people have to go out of state to get married.” Hummm, priorities, priorities. Protect basic human right to live without fear, or the ability to hang a piece of paper on the wall. Divorce protects those who need it, which is sad, because if everyone acted as a community, there wouldn’t be domestic violence, human trafficking, abuse, neglect, rape. BUT I suppose it’s much easier and more comfortable to sit in front of the computer and bitch about a majority vote.
@ Deb: Marriage also protects those who need it, spouses and children. Marriage is NOT about hanging a piece of paper on the wall. See? That’s the problem with you heathens, you think its just about a piece of paper that can be torn up and it’s NOT. It is NOT, lady. You speak as if marriage kills people. Marriage does not kill people (or choke them or otherwise hurt them). People kill people.
OK, now that I’m done with my ridiculous rant, please note that this is all a big political statement. This has absolutely no chance in passing because most heterosexuals (who make up the majority vote) will not hesitate to strip gays of their civil rights BUT, when heterosexual divorce is at stake, all of a sudden, they forget the whole “sanctity” part of the marriage they claimed to be protecting. Maybe your marriages would last longer if you would take the millions of dollars you spent on stripping people’s civil rights away and, rather, invest them in marriage counseling programs or domestic violence prevention and support for the survivors and the abusers.
It is important to recognize the irrevocable stipulations that come with marriage. Although it is a sacred vow, it came about in a day that valued none other than the sanctity of grain, the passage of blood in the protection of Bethlehem, as well as the reproductive values clearly instilled by the customs of Middle-Eastern civilization. These cultures were instilled in their people, and served them well back in their time. However, the clear and unavoidable truth is that we do not live in the time of the saints, the martyrs, and the prophets of yesteryear, and our civilization and human race is differing each and every day. Throughout the Bible, references are made to the goodness and sanctity of forgiveness and reparations made to their marriages, but today this is an often forgotten realm of the guidance of the Bible. The clear and obvious perversion of the truth spoken by Jesus and passed down through the disciples is manifested through the missionary-like ideals displayed by the people on this very website. People are calling down on each other, declaring heathenism, even though no foul has been exacted on anybody here. It is a moral degradation which is overtaking us. The final book of John states essentially that judgment is reserved solely for the deistic, and yet us mortals are clearly taking part, as am I at this very moment.
To end this long-winded discussion and observation into the moral compass of our society: this much is evident to me. There is no reason for us to judge one another in the way and speed which we do. We hate with such a passion that could be redirected towards the love of Christ that we separate ourselves from the clear evident truths which have overcome the world as we know it. The clear truth is that divorce, while maybe a bitter, tasteless action to some of us, is not a relevant factor in our lives. We must all learn to cope and understand each other in a way we see fit, and not rant throughout time in the hopes of teaching one another to better understand the way we feel. It is not beneficial, and not helpful throughout the course of human events.
Sincerely yours,
William Johnson Main IV PhD.
Yale University
I want this to pass, so I am voting yes if it get on the ballot and will sign any petition.
I think there should also be a prop “pregnancy protection act” only for those who are married. Until you get married you must be chemicly castrated.
Sorry not joking. To many criminals and poor people as it is in ca we should treat people like stray cats/dogs.
Professor,
You are obviously a product of current times yourself, long-winded and lacking relevant point. A hint for if you wish to interject future revelations: do not use 15 lines to fluff a point that can be stated clearly and concisely in 5. The authors of this site are simply bringing perspective to the Prop 8 scandal which now plagues California; the only reason they use quotations from the bible is to mimic the language and association which the fore-play of the 2008 massacre of civil liberty seemed incredibly fond of. I really do grow sick of this country’s politics, where a handful of loud persons can overwhelm the logic and reason of the majority and coerce them to voting in profoundly stupid ways.
To the original author of this particular comment, I offer you a gift of logic: if you arrive at a conclusion which seems irrational, check your assumptions as one of them is wrong. How this applies to your current (and prior) situations: there are many wonderful and many horrible things in this world, but few of them come as a complete surprise. Love with an open heart, and you will never be disappointed; but, if the conclusions you draw do not add up entirely, there is something you are missing. Someone does not “become” mean when they drink, they are mean and just keep it under control most of their day. Being successful in life is about being observant and learning the difference between ethics and aesthetics. I’m glad you made it out of the hell you had found, and I hope your heart remains open to the wonders of this world.
Truthfully yours,
B.D.
If exceptions are allowed, it will ruin the system. Better to make a resonable rule once and stick with it come hell or high water. That’s what God did. Divorce is wrong. Case closed.
Satire, Brenda. Satire.
Of course nobody is saying that you have to STAY with your abusive husband. Although let’s face it… you chose to stay with him for 18 years. You can leave him, we’re not saying you have to live with him. We ARE saying, however, that you have to stay married to him. 52% of california voters agree that marriage must be protected. You go to Vegas and check out the long line-ups of people who only met that night waiting to get married by an Elvis impersonator. Marriage isn’t taken seriously by heterosexuals. If we want to reserve the right just for opposite sex couples, we’re going to have to have it come with some responsibilities.
So, Brenda, what was your reason for using divorce instead of the criminal courts against him? Last time I checked “beaten, choked, threatend, and raped” is assault in all 50 states. “My first marriage, you know the one I just talked about, he was not at all abusive in the beginning, he grew into it.” is a sign of advancing mental illness as well- you could have had him committed to an insane asylum instead of divorcing him, which would have protected your 4 kids better.
You people are ridiculous. Why would she want to stay with her husband after he did this to her. Yes, she could bring him to court and send him to prison, then what? Having a husband in prison would put her in a loveless marriage. The only way you can make marriage something God would want is when people are in loving marriages. You would have to legalize human emotion; for people who are abused or fall out of love, divorce is not bad. It is not a sin against God. It would be better to have someone leave a bad marriage where it is abusive, it is not making an EXCEPTION, because when you make your vows you are not agreeing to HELP each other through sickness and in health, not agreeing to stay with someone who is detrimental to your health.
Thankfully this will never pass, but only God can judge. Why don’t you people who believe in marriage forever stay in your marriages forever. You have no right, both constitutionally and as a simple human, to restrict the rights of others based on religion. Let people be unless it harms YOU which it does not.
I think I see your problem. You believe marriage is about love. No wonder you believe in divorce. Marriage isn’t about love, it’s about duty and commitment- which ideally come from love and human emotion, but they don’t have to.
Funny, my marriage vows said that I WAS agreeing to be faithful- in sickness and in health, until DEATH do us part. I take that seriously. So have 6 men up here in Oregon whose wives tried to divorce them. Abusive men need to be in jail- and the women who love abusive men need to be strong and make sure they stay there. What appeals court or panel would believe the ex coming in to say this person should still be in jail and not be released? They’d just think she was being vengeful. But if a WIFE comes in and says “I still love him, but he’s ill and can’t be trusted with the safety of himself and others”- then THAT carries a lot of weight.
Bullshit- a man who is mentally ill enough to beat his wife is *also* the type who would go off and commit violent crimes. Such a man belongs in a mental institution until he can be brainwashed. And such behavior IS an illness, no different than H1N1.Likewise, what man can trust a woman who breaks her vows? Such a woman can’t even be trusted to pay off a credit card! Her word means NOTHING.
Falling in and out of love is part of the human condition. Couples who have been married 20, 30, 40, even 50 years fall in and out of love with each other all the time. That’s why commitment and duty are more important to a marriage than mere love, which comes and goes. If one is HONEST and keeps their VOWS, then love means nothing in comparison to HONOR. But I wouldn’t expect you to know anything about honesty.
How would you know if I know anything about honesty? You don’t know me as a person in any way, although I know that you are going to pass judgment on me regardless.
It depresses me as a Christian to see people so hateful of others. I wasn’t saying “it in no way harms YOU” about the abusive husband, but rather of divorce. A couple getting divorced is not harming you, and maybe they have tried for a very long time to try to get it back together.
If you ever wonder why faith seems so weak now, it is because it wears a hateful face. You people represent Christians, and people who question their faith or want support see you all. You all are hateful, judgmental people that sit vehemently behind your computer screens and make guesses at the people who do not agree with you on this site.
If you are representatives of what kind of people heaven is consisted of, then perhaps there is no God after all since I doubt he would create a world of people who can’t find love in their heart for homosexuals and people in loveless marriages.
I know that you are pro-divorce. I know that divorce is the breaking of marriage vows. I know that breaking a vow is dishonest. A+B=B+A.
There’s nothing hateful on this page at all. There is only sin and not sin- and since we all sin, how can we hate those who sin? We can only encourage them to not sin.
Then they should try harder. Willpower is stronger than emotion. Having said that- divorce is a form of lying, and all lying needs to be removed from society. We learned in 2008 what happens when financial analysts for Citibank lied. To be honest, one needs to hold to one’s vows and always speak the truth.
No guesses needed- as I said above, normal reason was enough. There isn’t even a judgement call about it; those who are for divorce are for lying.
I have great love in my heart for such people- else why would I want them not to sin and to walk with God? If I didn’t have love, I wouldn’t care what they did. If I didn’t care, there would be no need for them to convert away from sin. If I didn’t love them, then they could just go to hell and I wouldn’t care.One can live without human love- but one cannot live without the love of God, even if one’s physical heart is still beating.
Hey Ted, maybe you should try to make some legit points in your argument. My friends and I have been sitting here laughing about them for quite some time now… so I guess by all means keep doing what your doing because it’s providing me entertainment! Oh, and you do NOT love homosexuals and those who want a divorce… because if you did, you wouldn’t be asking them to change for you! Stop hating everyone in the world who does not have your perspective, and get a life! Cool thanks
Ted,
My reason for divorce is that not only have I been abused for many years. I still stayed faithful because I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I am an old fashioned girl, who believes in the old ways. But when you have a knife at your throat, it’s hard to have the strength to do much of anything. I was afraid all the time. It was like walking on glass. Whenever he came home, if you said hello the wrong way, I would get a beat down. The last straw was when he tried to KILL our oldest son. I took the abuse for so long, thinking it would change…boy was I stupid…I also had four kids who wanted their “dad” around., so in my sick mind and the stupidity of the whole thing I stayed… I was also afraid that he would Kill me if I ran away. As he told me he would.
But when anyone threatens my kids….all HELL breaks loose. That’s why I Divorced him.
@Brenda- my question is, since his behavior was so irrational and violent, as an old-fashioned girl why didn’t you sign commitment papers and have him locked up in a mental institution?
As it is, I think you’re damn lucky to be alive- many who divorce men who exhibit such behavior, are not (like I said before, in the Portland, OR metro area we’ve had 6 murder-suicides related to this just since October!)
I do believe that is the point of this whole thing, and as a “Christian” that would mean you are in support of gay marriage. If you aren’t, then I believe you have the wrong faith.
I think we could keep all the divorce lawyers busy by making adultery illegal. The biblical punishment for adultery was getting stoned, but that does not seem to be a hardship in California these days. As punishment, adulterers should no longer be able to file joint tax returns or have spousal inheritence rights (the adulterer only, not the faithful spouse) which would be a great boon to the state treasury. Possibly they should be registered as sex offenders. An exception should be considered for the adult film industry, as that is a great revenue producer for the state.
Forgot to add: Any elected official found to have committed adultery should be immediately removed from office.
Do you mean someone walked in on the elected official and caught him….mmmm…red handed? I hope they got the pictures as evidence. Open and shut case. Next stop hell and damnation.
I would have to disagree… I think an elected official’s personal life and career should be kept separate. For instance… forgive me this is a bad example… but Bill Clinton was a great president and even though he cheated on his wife (which is morally wrong)there is no denying he did some great things for the United States.
I mean… just putting my opinion out there. Take whatever you want from it.
Unless they are cheating on their spouse with someone under 18, they should not be classified as a sex offender. Maybe a new category, but don’t put the same amount of punishment on cheaters as child molesters.
Ideally, a vow breaker is about the same as a child molester in my eyes- they’re somebody we can’t trust in society with the safety of others.
Oookay Ted. Right. People who are trying to escape from a husband who is beating them to death are in the same category as someone who sexually corrupts a child. Maybe YOU should pray more.
@Anonymous Coward who uses other people’s names in the author line-
liars and cheats are liars and cheats. All sins are equal.
Okay. let me get this straight… if i kill someone, it’s a sin. if i lie, it’s a sin. so if i kill someone, i should get the same punishment as a liar? sorry, but you are wrong in my eyes.
I know most of you that don’t believe in marrige always come up with excuses why not to marry and if you marry why to divorce. Marrige is sacred and before you get hitched, you need to know the person first. If you marry the wrong person and beats you up then you shouldn’t be voting anyways because you can Not make a good decision. Enough said!!! Allow us to make the RIGHT DECISION FOR YOU ! You will thank us later!! YOu’ll shoot your EYE out kid!! If you do not want get divorced, don’t marry!!
Clearly, you are ignorant of the real world. If you marry someone, and they develop some sort of a substance abuse such as alcoholism, and they beat you it is not a matter of poor judgment. You can’t predict what is going to happen next week, let alone 15 years down the road. People who are abused obviously didn’t marry someone that had the slightest inclination of showing abusive traits. People who get married want to be with their love, but if you feel threatened you need to get out. God does not want to see his children getting hurt, and your life being at risk is grounds for divorce.
Don’t believe me if you want, and divorce being sin or not, God is going to forgive those who leave marriages for legitimate reasons.
God might. But what idiot would ever trust what such a person says ever again?
wait ted… I thought this whole argument you’ve been creating in ALL of your comments is based on the fact God will NOT forgive those who leave marriages?? Contradicting ourselves are we? Get your arguments or just stop forcing your very judgmental opinions on others who are entitled to their own opinions are you are your own.
God forgives all if you ask. Even murderers. But the question is more, what level of dishonesty can our society deal with?
In this case, my arguments are straight- it’s society that has become crooked since leaving behind Christianity.
You remind me of my friends very judgmental mom who was so freakishly caught up in what is right and found out my friend was drinking even though she’s 21 and took her to get an excercism all the way out in Boston. I didn’t like her very much.
Well now make divorce illegal in Cal. Ok then I think it should be so. But within that law would be exceptions like abuse. So Go for it. For every right comes a responsibility.Lets teach the responsibility along with excersising the right.
I believe marriage should last forever. But there are people that get abused by someone in a relationship. You could marry your best friend of years and years, than all of a sudden that person starts beating on you because they lose their jobs or stress gets to them so bad that they have to take it out on someone. Do you really want more children going through therapy? My grandmother was beaten during her last marriage. She was beaten so bad that she couldn’t breathe out of her nose for the rest of her life. My mother is from a broken home and has been married to my father for 30 some-what years. I have been in a relationship for 3 years now and plan on getting married to the man but if he came at me one day out of the blue (which does happen) and try to hit me or abuse me in anyway than I would get divorced. I know God wouldn’t want one of his daughters to be hurt in any way. Also in the bible it says “love thy neighbor” it doesn’t say “love thy neighbor unless thy do me wrong”. You can take that to the bank.
hey, i hate being hit and raped as much as the next girl, but divorce need not be the solution for that, that is why we have guns!!! come on this is america we just shoot ya if we disagree, right? anyway, all of this seems to be getting off the mark which is.. noone should be able to deprive anyone of their rights and even if you disagree with someone you are supposed to respect that they are human and deserve the same treatment as you!
I totally agree with the part that we should respect others and what they think is right. Why should we take away one right?
This bill is a good start but I don’t think it goes nearly far enough. What about all these DINK liberals? They take all the tax breaks and extra income then fly off on their European vacations. Godless tools of the UN. Don’t they realize welfare and social security are built on one of America’s finest institutions…Pyramid schemes!
God said, “Be fruitful and multiply.” The young always take care of the old, but our numbers are stagnating. So is our state budget. Don’t we deserve our forefathers right to pass all our problems off to the next generation? We need a bigger tax base. And we need to start working on it now!
I say, “Marriage for procreation not for recreation.” Anyone who is not providing for our next generation of taxpayers and churchgoers is not really committed to marriage. The state should remove all tax incentives for couples who do not produce offspring within five years and cannot show compelling medical reasons. This includes tax breaks, group medical, and inheritance.
While the DINKs jet off to Sidney a committed family might make it as far as Anaheim or Chucky Cheese. Families with children can’t afford to leave the state. One child’s worth of disposable diapers provides work for four sanitation workers. Think of all the teachers, police, bus drivers, fast food workers, etc. it takes to raise a child to adulthood. Think of all the jobs mandatory procreation will create.
Come on people, we can breed ourselves out of this mess!
I agree with everything you said except your assumption that all Double Income / No Kids couples are liberals. Liberal with Other People’s tax dollars perhaps, but isn’t that part of the definition of Conservative?
The one problem with your argument is that DINKs who are GLBT, or single gay folks, which is the only way the state will have us, pay for your kids’ education, schools and other services we don’t necessarily use. We don’t have an opt-out clause.
What I find especially delightful about this website is that I am never sure whether what I read is sarcasm. The most heartfelt Christian ramblings develop a more complex aroma when flavored with irony.
Amen! And I do believe irony was the eighth deadly sin. Or was that body odor?
So from what I’m getting is that only people that are straight should have children. Meanwhile I know several Gay and Lesbians that would love to raise a child but can’t because of the lifestyle that they are happy with. If we keep breeding than it will cause more problems with our world. I would rather adopt than have a child of mine own because of all the people that are breeding and not taking care of their children.
I am a Christian and I think marriage should last forever, but I don’t believe that it should be anyone’s choice but the people in it together. Banning it is just telling failed marriages to continue on. What about the battered women in marriage? Should they stay together? What about the relationship where people are getting cheated on by their spouses? I don’t think that it is right. It would cause more problems than good ones. It is the same way that I feel about abortion. I really don’t believe that it is right, but if a woman is raped then she should have a choice to it. I know that it can probably benefit some people but if you have to make sure you look at it from all angles. I personally would not agree with putting a stop to it. It just isn’t my place and I feel no one else’s either. We should just try better ways to keep it from happening.
Couples will no longer be able to skirt their tax obligations by separating, they will have to pay their fair tax as a married couple and not further increasing the states deficit.
Religion is not the case here, it is showing congress and the state of california that if they want to say marriage should be protected, well then hell, protect it. simply stated..put your money where your ass is!! i am all for this and to me, even if it does not get passed, it does send a very clear message, so bravo John Marcotte!! I think we are all tired of california and the budget “crisis”. i live in down town los angeles, so i understand the fight the save money, but there is nothing backing the money up! the money is not ours, i wish people would clue in on that and why certain countries are doing away with the dollar (which yes is a different subject altogether)!….but a good start to advocating change and proving what a bunch of jackasses we have in not just CA, but the government in general which is not to say we dont actually have politicans who are trying to make a difference. so i truly think that John Marcotte’s intent is to show an aray of ongoing issues, and not just protecting marriage or gay rights. AWESOME!
The problem is that religion is clearly the main focus here. Yes, I realize this post is about money, but the main focus of the website is Christian based. And like it or not, you can’t shove your views down people’s throats in America just because you are a majority. Live in God’s path if you please, but you can’t force other people to. If others want to get out of marriages, then they have the basic human right to their own life. You can’t take that away.
Exactly right, which is why the Constitution is anti-Christian!
Time to repeal it and get back to those Kings appointed by God through his Vicar The Pope!
Independent people are not half human; that is an opinion of yours and as a human you have no right to judge humanity over another person.
Your wife has all the rights she needs because AMERICA provides them for her. Don’t tell me that America needs to repeal the Constitution. While I concede that we didn’t establish our country without killing innocent people, it was the way of the world back then to conquer and attain. However, we are incredibly lucky people to live in a country that cares about it’s citizens enough to let them have a democratic society. We are so lucky, and when people mock the basic foundation of our system as you do other countries shake their heads at the ignorance of Americans.
And you are implying that you think you are superior to your wife who has “no reason to leave the house” because you “pay the mortgage”.
Finally, you do not love people who you are trying to change. It means you do not accept them, and will only love them when they fit your mold. No one knows what God truly exists, or if one exists, so don’t push Christian values at someone who does not want to follow them. And I know that you will respond with something along the lines of “I know my god is real”, but I suppose if you talked to someone of another religion they would call you the fool and try to convert you to their ways… if you really believed in the Christian God you would not judge others and not play God with the government.
No judgement involved, it’s easy to see once you are on the other side of righteousness.
The freedom to do evil is no freedom at all. You are ignorant.
That’s not superior- that’s inferior! I need to work to support her. Rightfully so, but boy have you got that backwards!
It’s not my mold alone- but the mold of every traditional people on the planet- for a reason, because that mold works. Every other form ever tried has been proven to not be a survival trait. Religions and philosophies evolve, just like species, and there is a reason behind them, and that reason is usually survival.
One doesn’t need Christianity to see that divorce and homosexuality are anti-survival traits. Evolution alone teaches survival of the fittest.
I don’t care about other false religions such as Christianity. I’m Catholic. My religion is universal.
Ted, you can’t just go changing the constitution. There has to be separation of church and state otherwise this country of ours would not run as smoothly as it does.
Hilda, that’s exactly right- and in fact the point of this whole ironical piece.
I’d prefer a theocracy- they work WAY smoother than the Constitution has. However, *given the constitution as a reality* and our *lack of ability to change it* our only choice is to *get government out of the marriage business entirely*. It’s the only option that doesn’t discriminate against anybody.
That means no legal divorces, and a wife’s only protection against an abusive spouse is the mental institutions.
It also means no tax breaks for marriage. If you want to give a tax break to adults living together in the same household, fine, but don’t discriminate against same sex couples, siblings, one man with 23 wives, etc. All household choices should be treated equally under tax law.
Anything less is bigotry and unconstitutional.
Still would be interesting to adopt Rerum Novarum and it’s descendants as a blueprint for economics though.
Wow, here is someone claiming no discrimination yet assumes it’s always the husband who’s the aggressor.
You are seriously a disgusting citizen. Do you even realize what fortune you have by being in this country. Countless lives have been lost for the right of you to have so much freedom. If you lived in many other countries, you wouldn’t have the venue to even vent your hatred onto the web like you do. Do not come here and attack the Constitution that has allowed you to live freely, your wife to have rights, and your children to have a good education.
If you want to live in a church-state, then leave.
No hatred involved. The Constitution did not allow me to live freely, God gave me that right, and I have it without the Constitution. My wife would have all the rights she needs in Iran as well as under the Constitution. My children, I can educate myself just fine- and they’ll be smarter than anybody who went to PUBLIC school. And I did not come here, I was born here. Your “constitutional” government came in with malaria-soaked blankets and killed off most of my people, just when we were learning about Christ from the French Jesuit Priests who came in peace instead of with the gun. We were here for 40,000 years. YOU WHITE PROTESTANTS with your divorce and sexual immorality and freedom to do evil are the invaders here in the Pacific Northwest. We had a perfectly good church-state going before YOU came.
No God did not give you that right. He gave you life but it can be taken away by anyone. Your wife would not have the same rights in Iran as she does here. She wouldn’t be able to leave the house without a man and would be deprived from education.
I highly doubt that your children would benefit from being taught by you. Public school’s lessons are not so much in the material as the experience, you meet people that are unlike you and you learn life skills. If you kept your children home and brainwash them, they aren’t going to be able to function as regular citizens.
Why does she need to leave the house? She’s got a perfectly good business watching the children of other people. I’ve got the education- and I pay the mortgage.
You mean like the babykillers who get abortions? I’d rather my children don’t function as your “regular citizens”- we’re better than than your idiot regular citizens. As for the experience of hanging out with drug dealers, sluts, and studs or worse yet getting killed by some goth vampire wannabe, I think I don’t want my children to meet such people at all.
Because ALL people who go to public schools are drug dealers and sluts? You have a real skewed view of the real world. Plenty of people who go to church and share your Christian views went to public schools.
The fact that you feel as though you are superior to your wife is very disrespectful. Perhaps you are anti-divorce because she is the kind of housewife that never stands up for herself. Unlike her though, many women are independent and do enjoy leaving the house and not having to cover up, as many middle eastern women do. America provides those freedoms
Maybe your church- but my church runs it’s own schools.
Independent people are not half human; that is an opinion of yours and as a human you have no right to judge humanity over another person.
Your wife has all the rights she needs because AMERICA provides them for her. Don’t tell me that America needs to repeal the Constitution. While I concede that we didn’t establish our country without killing innocent people, it was the way of the world back then to conquer and attain. However, we are incredibly lucky people to live in a country that cares about it’s citizens enough to let them have a democratic society. We are so lucky, and when people mock the basic foundation of our system as you do other countries shake their heads at the ignorance of Americans.
And you are implying that you think you are superior to your wife who has “no reason to leave the house” because you “pay the mortgage”.
Finally, you do not love people who you are trying to change. It means you do not accept them, and will only love them when they fit your mold. No one knows what God truly exists, or if one exists, so don’t push Christian values at someone who does not want to follow them. And I know that you will respond with something along the lines of “I know my god is real”, but I suppose if you talked to someone of another religion they would call you the fool and try to convert you to their ways… if you really believed in the Christian God you would not judge others and not play God with the government.
Have another Cheeseburger fatty.
Came here cause of the article on Yahoo.
I mean this is really epic thinking here man. I mean really. This thinking is so good, if it had been around when my mother was married to her first husband, she’d still be in an abusive relationship with dead animals and miscarrages and I would NOT EXIST.
God damn yes marriage between anyone shouldn’t be entered into lightly, but banning divorce? Oh yes lets allow the wifebeaters and hubby bashers the ability to abuse their spouses with very little to stop them.
What’s this sound I’m making over here? It’s the sound of one hand clapping.
I’m christian, and even this idea appalls me.
But this is just a natural extension of banning same-sex marriage. After all, the Bible doesn’t talk about loving and committed same-sex relationships, but good Christians knew better than that and banned it anyways.
The Bible is fairly clear on divorce, with Jesus speaking out very strongly against it, even equating remarriage with adultery. It is the duty of all true Christians to band together and impose this law on everyone else.
Just like they did with Prop. 8.
So, you’re saying that christians should ban together and become Nazis?
The “Bible” also says to practice tolerance.
Please keep your ignorance elsewhere.
@Jakaze (below) – I think the christians have banded together to become Nazis. That’s how prop 8 passed, isn’t it?
Ok, first, you’re breaking Godwin’s Law here even MENTIONING those creeps. Second, I’d point out that the Nazis were Eugenicists primarily- their death camps were an attempt to euthanize unwanted genes out of the human species. Prop 8 was an attempt to do the reverse- preserve the genetic diversity of the human species by encouraging actively procreative marriages and discouraging non-procreative ones. So Christians are the anti-Nazis here, where the DINKS and Gays (those who accept non-procreative marriages, divorce, and abortions for the poor in an attempt to genocide unwanted genes out of the species) would be the Nazis.
Godwin’s Law- this should be the last post on the topic, and the first person to mention Nazis should be considered to have forfeit the debate.
“Oh yes lets allow the wifebeaters and hubby bashers the ability to abuse their spouses with very little to stop them.”
Ever hear of putting somebody in jail for assault? Or better yet, having them declared insane and a danger to themselves and others (given the number of wife-beating cases that end in murder-suicide, I’d think that would be an automatic on the *very first domestic disturbance call*).
Ted.. I’m speechless as to how ignorant you are. I just read through your arguments… I really just don’t think you’ll ever see things right. I agree, this country is never going to get EVERYONE to see your religion as the right way to believe, so if you cannot live peacefully along with people who are respecting your beliefs but believe differently, maybe you should just LEAVE
I love the idea of banning divorce – it has many excellent benefits.
The one problem has already been mentioned: There needs to be a way to legally and permanently get out of a physically abusive marriage.
But that’s easy: Amend the annulment requirements to allow a person to obtain an annulment at their own option if their spouse is incarcerated for a violent crime against them.
Too many abusive people stay free in our society because their spouses cover for them and refuse to press charges even if they do obtain a divorce. The option of getting an easy annulment if your spouse beats you and you get them arrested and convicted would solve the only problem in banning divorce while also giving abusive people another thing to think about before they raise their hand in anger.
This also has the benefit of returning to the victim of abuse the status of “unmarried” instead of forcing upon them the stigma of the status of “divorced”. They certainly don’t deserve that stigma, and being able to avoid it and get out scot-free might further encourage them to press charges against abusive ogres who really belong behind bars. (The fact that said ogres would also be unmarried instead of divorced is more than made up for by also forever having one or the other of the titles “convict” or “ex-convict”.)
Such an amendment to the requirements for annulment would allow the ban on marriage to pass as written without actually granting any exceptions which could otherwise undermine it.
And while I’m perfectly aware that this proposal is really only intended to highlight the hypocrisy of conservatives who are against gay marriage and doesn’t really enjoy the support that it should, I can tell you right now: It would have my vote. (At least, as long as something like the above protection for abused spouses was also included.)
Your proposal would have my vote too, though I slightly disagree with it. My alternate proposal is that being convicted of a violent crime against one’s spouse should result in a life sentence of hard labor, with all earnings being sent directly to the spouse.
Or better yet, see below- diagnosed as a mental illness for which the only cure is heavy sedation for the lifetime of the victim.
keep your fucking religion out of my life!
i think this is a a## hole law you have better things to do bullshit
All of your arguments are moot because god doesn’t exist
Sir, please cease and desist.
Sincerely yours,
William Johnson Main IV PhD
Yale University
i am a nipple faceee head!!!
you lie
What is happening to our country?? It seems as if we are taking 10 steps backwards instead of moving forward. This is the new millenium people! I can’t believe that after all the blood, sweat, and tears of our ancestors in this country to secure our right to live as we see fit, that ignorant people like that man has decided that outlawing divorce is a great idea. I think divorce is horrible and believe people should take more time getting to know each other before marrying, but who am I to tell them if it’s not working out, you are stuck with that person?? That is how our grandparents and great grandparents lived, and let me tell you something, a lot of those couples were miserable. Haben’t we learned anything from the past?? I believe that all people have the right to marry, and if it doesn’t work out, then so be it. They have the right to end if they so choose. You are not preserving marriage. I believe if this bill passes, then young people like myself will instead of marrying, simply decide to live together. The number of people getting married will drop, and people will cohabitate without the sanctity of marriage. Does that sit better with you?? You will repel people from marriage instead of encouraging people to marry. Good job, imbecile! You are married for 7 years and now you have all the answers?? Talk to us in 20 or 30 years, we’ll see if you still want to ban divorce then….Try choosing a more worthwhile cause, like helping the homeless, or helping runaways get off the streets, or helping education people about what marriage is really like before they marry. Tsking away people’s rights is wrong. Who are you to think you know better than anyone else in this country?? You are not our “Daddy” who gets to decide what’s right and wrong for everyone else. Stick to your own home life, jackoff, and leave the rest of us to make our own decisions as adults. Go live in a communist country for a few years…Your priorities wil change, I promise you that.
Neither is the gommint our big daddy deciding who we can marry until Prop 8 passed.
Being miserable is better than being divorced.
That is a personal opinion you can’t force on other people. For fuck’s sake, do you not get another person’s divorce does not have that much affect on you? Don’t come at me with dollars arguments because there are other areas that could cut spending before divorce.
Didn’t September 2008 teach you anything about the lack of ethics in general society? LIARS need to be expunged from society- and as far as I’m concerned, anybody who would get divorced has lied.
Ok, so banning Divorce might not be a good idea since you could never consider all the possible situations and outcomes. However, I do think they should repeal no-fault divorce and/or make it more difficult to get one. Some folks, if given enough time to think, might find out that they would have stayed together had they had the tools they got after the divorce. Let’s face it, if you have kids you’re still going to have to deal with your ex-spouse anyway (in most cases). There is no such thing as falling out of love (per the bible, 2 Corinthians, Romans, etc.); it’s only a case of a hardened heart that refused to allow Christ to replace a heart of stone with one of love an compassion. Real love is a choice, not a feeling, and in marriage you make that choice everyday whether you feel like it or not. Remember the heart is deceitful and not to be trusted; we don’t live the rest of our lives by our feelings only in marriage do we see this. Honestly, if we let our feelings guide our every decision would you go to work? Of course not, but we go because it’s the right, mature, responsible thing to do; and most importantly we don’t like the consequences when we’re not working. You can’t change the other person, but you can separate; allowing them to feel the consequences and change. Might not happen in every case, but worth a shot.
I LOVE this idea. (although not for the seasons intended by the author) Please send emails on how to contribute to this cause which will, if voted in, create a massive shift in the social structure of this country.(although not in the direction you intend) You have my full support!!!!!
Wow – you Christians really are screwed-up.
Thanks Marcotte, pretty genius stuff here.
Proposition: If you don’t believe in divorce, don’t get divorced. Some people don’t believe in eating meat, but they cross the line when they force YOU not to eat meat. Don’t push your beliefs onto others – it wouldn’t be the christian thing to do!
Agreed. Tolerance, the one thing many christians fail to understand.
“Agreed. Tolerance, the one thing many christians fail to understand.”
Especially tolerance of evil, which I’m darned glad I don’t understand.
I also think that since we all agree that marriage is for making children that any couple who doesn’t have at least one child within 18 months of marriage should have their marriage annulled by the state and both should be charged with fraud. You can’t get married for all those tax breaks if you’re not going to have kids like you’re supposed to in a marriage.
John, this is a noble idea at face value, and I admire your tenacity and values (which I am in full alignment with) but in the end your idea is fatally flawed. Why? Because if you ban divorce, people will stop getting married.
Well gee, why would they stop getting married? Same reason they won’t mortgage a house for the rest of their natural lives with no ability to sell or walk away from it. Same reason they won’t ban abortion. Same reason they won’t ban adoption. Same reason they won’t ban contraceptives. It goes on and on. Common denominator? FREEDOM.
Your ban turns marriage from a covenant with God into an unbreakable civil covenant with the people of California (aka “the state”). It effectively PENALIZES marriage–which from a religious standpoint would all but eviscerate it.
If you are serious about rescuing marriage, join me in helping couples stay together through ministry and coaching, and leave our freedoms alone. I am working on starting a marriage ministry in Sacramento and would love to chat with like-minded marriage champions.
Peace and respect,
Mark
http://www.joesacramento.com
I think anyone that commits adultery should be listed as a registered sex offender. After all, they committed Biblical SIN and they’re not being properly punished by the state. California doesn’t have enough rocks in it to stone them all, so I think this is the next best thing.
You are an idiot. We legitimately do NOT live in a church-state, so you need to get your head out of your ass. adultery as sex offender? you christians are complete fucks and need to be castrated. your kind is a plague on this earth and should be eradicated as quickly and efficiently as possible. the ridiculous missionaryism which has betaken all of you fools is incomprehensibly fececious and arrogant. it is disgusting. live by a moral code. dont chastize those who don’t.
Obviously, you condone mortal sin. Until you recognize that all sins are equal in the eyes of the Lord, you and I cannot have a discourse, since I am on a much higher moral ground. And, just for the record… marriage is a religious AND legal contract, sanctioned by both the church AND the state. So, listen up, pinhead: we ARE living in a church state, right now. A tradition formally held by the church only (marriage) is now fully supported by the state in every way. Wake up and smell the coffee, honey. When this measure passes it will ensure that you HEATHENS live Godly lives finally.
PRAISE JESUS! DOWN WITH DIVORCE! STONE DISOBEDIENT CHILDREN, TOO!
yes, obviously i condone mortal sin. thats the only possible source of moral recourse, isn’t it? well since you, as all christians do, know everything about my life, how bout this: i have never cheated on my wife. i waited until marriage for sex. i have 3 children. i love them, and they go to public school and get straight A’s. i attended Cornell University in new york. i work as a financial analyst for CitiBank. I am sorry to tell you, ‘honey’ but my moral compass is undoubtedly unclouded and if you for some reason have a problem with that, well then have fun rotting in the ground like the rest of us. it is embarrasing for you, clearly. and stone children? what the hell is that… and heathens? hmm interesting point. ohhhh wait, i couldn’t care any less.
Had to reply to the wrong level- stupid system that doesn’t support flame wars properly.
I found these two statements:
” i work as a financial analyst for CitiBank. ”
and
“my moral compass is undoubtedly unclouded”
To be mutually incompatible statements in and of themselves. ESPECIALLY after what has gone on with Citibank over the past year.
Actually, marriage doesn’t prove our nation is a church-state. I can get a marriage license but not have a wedding or any sort of holy witness.
Get your head out of the sand, it’s 2009 not 2009 BC.
Religion keeps pressing B when we try to evolve
@Rawr: Marriage is a religious contract sanctioned by both the church? What church? Are you saying only members of your church can be married? Or are you saying that your church sanctions the marriages of atheists, Wiccans, Muslims, Jews, and Apostles of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Because, according to your argument, one of those must be true: You either consider marriages within your own church as the only morally acceptable marriages, or all marriages are equally acceptable to your church.
If the former is true, then you should be lobbying to deny Jews the right to marry. Good luck with that.
If the latter is true, then your church accepts the rights of others to follow their beliefs when they marry. That would include the belief that homosexuals can marry.
If all sins are equal, and not being in communion with your church is a sin, then every single person in the world who isn’t in your particular church is equal and all are going to hell and it really doesn’t matter if they’ve gotten married or not or if they are gay or not. They’re all the same. So if you accept the marriage of two Catholics (assuming you aren’t Catholic – I can’t imagine that you are) then you must also accept the marriage of two homosexuals. They’re perfectly equal according to you.
Judge not.
One thing that has not been said is that God said ‘love thy neighbor’ it doesn’t say ‘love thy neighbor unless they don’t do as I say’. Some time ago, the only way a person could file for divorce is to file a police report saying that they’re partner (i’m talking male or female beating on the other) was abusing them. Than that partner would be taken to jail but released and that partner would come home and beat the shit out of the one you made the report. I’m living with my boyfriend right now and like my mother always told me ‘you don’t know that person until you live with them’. Why not live with a person out of wed lock and find out if they beat on you than you can leave the relationship without any paper work but in the eyes of your religious people, you say we can’t even do that. How are we suppose to get to know the person we want to marry. Plus its our government trying to take away another of our freedoms.
Likewise, up here in the land of killing useless old people, we’ve had a rash of murder-suicides in exactly the same circumstances- many after the woman had filed for divorce. THIS DOES NOT ARGUE FOR DIVORCE. What this argues for is defining spousal abuse as a mental illness and locking up the abusers for a sentence in a mental institution not less than the lifetime of the victim. Preferably heavily sedated the entire time, by injection, so that there is no chance of escape.
“It’s time for us to offer to gay and lesbian people the same sacrament of fidelity that we offer to the heterosexual world,” Bishop M. Thomas Shaw told The Boston Globe.
Shaw’s decision to permit priests to officiate at same-sex weddings went into effect on Sunday. It comes five years after Massachusetts became the first state to legalize marriage for same-sex couples.
“Christian marriage is a sacramental rite that has evolved in the church, along with confirmation, ordination, penance, and the anointing of the sick, and while it is not necessary for all, it must be open to all as a means of grace and sustenance to our Christian hope,” the Episcopal bishop stated.
Leaders of the diocese met in August to develop a policy in response to a resolution passed by The Episcopal Church’s highest legislative body this past summer. In July, The Episcopal Church adopted a resolution stating that “bishops, particularly those in dioceses within civil jurisdictions where same-gender marriage, civil unions or domestic partnerships are legal, may provide generous pastoral response to meet the needs of members of this church.”
The resolution also noted the need to consider providing theological and liturgical resources for the blessing of same gender relationships.
The Episcopal Church’s House of Deputies further approved a resolution opening the ordination process to all baptized members, including practicing homosexuals.
Dallas bishop the Rt. Rev. James M. Stanton rejected the resolution, declaring that the Diocese of Dallas would continue to “stand with the larger Church in affirming the primacy of Scripture, the sanctity of marriage and the call to holiness of life.”
But over the past few months a number of dioceses have decided to lift bans on the blessing of same-sex unions, with the Diocese of Massachusetts taking a step further to allow clergy to solemnize same-gender marriages.
“Your bishops understand this (resolution) to mean for us here in the Diocese of Massachusetts that the clergy of this diocese may, at their discretion, solemnize marriages for all eligible couples, beginning Advent I,” Shaw explained. “Solemnization, in accordance with Massachusetts law, includes hearing the declaration of consent, pronouncing the marriage and signing the marriage certificate.”
He made clear that the provision is an allowance and not a requirement and that any member of the clergy may decline to wed gay and lesbian couples.
The eastern Massachusetts bishop noted to The Boston Globe that the diocese includes “a significant number of gay and lesbian clergy who are in partnerships” along with many gay and lesbian parishioners.
The Diocese of Massachusetts includes approximately 190 parishes and 77,000 church members.
That is going to drive a huge number of high Anglicans across the Tiber next Easter- straight back to Rome.
@Josh Myra-
Your argument is completely irrelevant. What in the name of our Sacred Lord Jesus Christ does the Diocese of Massachusetts have to do with keeping a marriage sacred? I am a teacher at a preschool outside of Dallas, Texas and we preach abstinence to our young students. We feel at our school that abstinence will lead to a long lasting marriage among husband and wife. However we have an entire year-long course called “Our Future,” which highlights the student’s future regarding marriage and other occurrences.We a largely Roman Catholic school because our school is situated in an area of large demographic of Polish.I feel people like “Tom the Godless Socialist” and “Bill says you are a ***** idiot” should be banished from society because of their views against the almighty Christian Church and their views against our Lord. I may seem extremely conservative but I am a born again Christian after discovering my faith following a horrific moment in life.
Please respond with comments to support and argue against me. I have taken a pledge to support and protect my faith of Catholicism and hope to spread the word of my religion to all niches of the globe.
Christopher Dransoff
Since when has the opinion of the polish mattered?
I mostly just find it amusing that such a huge number of people are completely missing the point of the whole divorce-ban suggestion. Most opponents of gay marriage cite as the primary reason for their view the “sanctity of marriage”. If they honestly believe marriage is sacred, then divorce is even more “evil” than homosexuality because divorce is a direct, incisive, and always successful attack on that sacred thing. Therefore, anybody claiming sanctity of marriage as a reason to ban gay marriage must either just as strongly support a ban on divorce or else admit their hypocrisy. That’s the power of this suggestion. You cannot be against both this and gay marriage (on the grounds of marriage sanctity) without exposing yourself as a hypocrite.
EXACTLY!!! I’ve argued that myself for quite some time now. Of course, it helps that I’m an ultramontaine Catholic- you can make precisely the same argument with abortion and artificial birth control.
(To clarify my point in that last comment, I too find marriage to be a highly sacred thing. But I don’t feel that gay marriage is any threat to that sanctity at all. Using marriage to repress a minority, on the other hand, takes a HUGE chunk out of that sanctity.)
Where I’m actually against gay marriage- but I’m also against divorce and secular marriage in general.
Get the government out of marriage entirely. No civil marriages, no civil divorces. Leave it to the priests. Replace it with civil unions- and then let *anybody* be in a union with *anything* in whatever numbers or combinations suit their purpose. That’s the only way I can see to fulfill the promises of the Constitution.
Anything less represses a minority of one form or another. Keeping marriage in government and forcing same sex marriage on us represses Catholics. Not allowing same sex marriage represses gays. Not allowing incest represses siblings. Not allowing polygamy represses Mormons. Not allowing childhood marriages represses Cambodians. Etc.
It really amazes me that grown people can spew so much hatred on a subject that is really none of our business. I believe that the “D” word is between the parties involved and their higher power. Even if that is GOD, what right do we have to say if they’re going to HELL or will not be forgiven by GOD. After all, my GOD is a forgiving GOD. I am sure he would forgive Divorce, after all he does forgive murderers, child molesters, rapist. All anyone has to do is ask for forgivness. He is the only one who is the Judge, Jury and executioner. After all this is HIS world. He is the creator, and He is the only one who can forgive or not. But I know he forgives. Alot of people get married for the wrong reasons, or too young. I pray that all of us could have a civil disussion about this, not a hatefull one like I have read.
Brenda- you see hatred. I see an attempt to make the world more honest by holding men and women to the vows they made and getting people the help they need instead of merely trying to escape from them.
God does indeed forgive all. But how much better would it be if there was nothing to forgive in the first place?
Me too- but for a site that started with an ironic twist on Prop 8, this is pretty good.
Oh, and textual communications are usually emotion free. All the hate you feel is really just guilt on your side of the screen.
And I still think your ex belongs in a mental institution instead of running free like your divorce allowed him to.
I just have to say something on the survival of the fittest comment. Let’s be honest; In our modern, technology dependent, society most would perish if there was no electricity. As a society we place ourselves above the laws of nature everyday. I wouldn’t act so high and mighty because a day will come when you’ll actually have to survive on your own. Can you hunt, fish, grow crops, make a fire, shelter, etc. or do you believe that food comes from the grocery store? On a positive note, isn’t America great? Don’t knock the system, although not perfect it still works well; might need a tune up though. If there was one major flaw in American society I’d have to say the lack of personal responsibility. In the end we’re responsible for our choices and their consequences (good or bad); that’s what makes us adults. The ultimate challenge in marriage is when one or both don’t take personal responsibility for the commitment they made to the other person and are unwilling to grow and change. The marriage is just like a person, it represents the combined assets of the individuals, and it must grow with us as individuals. If you stop taking care of it what do you think is going to happen.
I grew up rural- I guess I just assumed *everybody* learned to make do on their own. You mean there really are people who are that stupid?
Not really. We’re overly focused on the material and not on the spiritual, our ethics are in a shambles, our ability to raise families is falling apart, and we can’t even keep new immigrants going past 3 generations (that’s the point where procreation falls below replacement levels). As an experiment in freedom and personal responsibility it was a noble one; but as an experiment from an objective evolutionary standpoint it was a failure.
And this is a level I can even agree with. But I think the answer isn’t to give up- but rather to force the other person to GROW UP. Either that, or find out what mental illness is preventing them from growing up and treat it.
Take this from personal experience, you can’t make someone do anything; especially your spouse. It’s their choice, not ours. As much as we want to see them make our perceived right choices, it’s still theirs to make no matter how much we love them or don’t want to see them hurt themselves. I’m not making excuses for them; judgment will come for all of us in his own way. I’m sticking it out, so it is possible if you really do love your spouse and have faith in HIM to work in their lives on HIS time table (addiction, mental illness, infidelity). Any one of the circumstances I’m in; much less all three; would have most people running for the hills. Just remember you married the other person for better or worse; there was never a promise that it would be puppies and kittens or happily ever after all the time. If you’re in danger then certainly take appropriate action to safeguard yourself and children. You might have to make hard choices that cause you even more struggles later on, like forced commitment to an institution (no matter how right the choice they will still see it as a betrayal). Either way you made a commitment to stick it out; just remember there is no easy way out and you’re going to be dealing with it for the rest of your life. Don’t change your spouse or marriage; work towards changing the relationship you have with your spouse. If you want to change something; look in the mirror. If you’re in anything like my situation the sooner you look at yourself and humbly admit your own failings the better. They will either change with you or they won’t; in the end you’ll be a healthier person whether they decide to stick it out or not. Let them make the choice to give up; it’s not as easy as it sounds.
Heh. You slipped up, Ted. With that statement you’ve revealed that you are doing nothing more than trolling and trying to get reactions out of people. You’re probably not even religious – you’re just having fun getting people riled.
If you were actually Catholic you would know that Catholicism is a Christian religion. There are others, to be sure – even Christian cults. But to call Christianity a false religion exposes your ignorance of a very basic fact of Catholicism.
Also, if you were Catholic, you’d know that Pope Benedict himself has a great deal of respect for Lutherans and Jews and has expressed a desire for us to share with them a leadership role in the spirituality of today’s world. He would never condone a Catholic saying something like what you just said.
If I’m wrong, and you really are just an incredibly ignorant Catholic, then you should do yourself a favor and get to Confession this weekend and beg forgiveness for the hatred and intolerance you have been spewing.
Wayne- I actually am very deeply religious- but you don’t know your Greek very well. Modern Christianity split off from Catholicism during the Reformation- and that’s why I consider it to be false.
Pope Benedict’s work to evangelize the Lutherans, Jews, and now Anglicans is all about bringing them back under the metaculture of Katholikos.
And once again, as we discovered back in the 1980s in the Usenet Flame Wars- text communications are Turing Autistic- what looks like hatred and intolerance on your side may be loving discipline and a lack of tolerance for evil on my side. There is no way for you to tell the difference, so unless you can *PROVE* that I’m full of hatred and have strayed outside of the Catholic Church teachings on the subject of marriage (which in fact, I haven’t- the Church has always been against divorce and same sex marriage for 2000 years now), you’d better not assume. It shows more the mirror of your own feelings than it does mine.
Does this mean if I am divorced I will have to go back and live with the ex and my new husband too? And if I could not get divorced from husband 2 would the state be requiring that I practice polyandry? And if I am how is not getting divorced helping the state because now instead of having two houses I would have to have only one which would decrease state revenues. Can you imagine if all of us who were divorced had to move in with the ex and take our new families with us? I will tell you what will happen…the state of California will go broke…that’s what!
No ma’am. The Holy Word says that if you are already divorced, in God’s eyes there is nothing you can do. You must live in singleness and celibacy, in constant prayer for God’s forgiveness. Find some church work to occupy that idle time so you can keep your mind on the Prize and off of the Pants.
5 words, “separation of church and state”. put your bibles away, not all of us are religious and quite honestly your religious quotes will get you nowhere with those people. you will however gain the support of those who mindlessly follow the bible without attempting to make their own interpretation, mostly because they mindlessly follow anything someone says is about god. now quit being insecure and worry about your own marriage. other people getting a divorce is not hurting you at all. all this is going to do is create many unhappy marriages and divorce is so normal most children come from separated children these days and it just happens to be a fact of life. bringing the budget into is basically a red herring for support. people will see that “wow its help fix the budget, yeah thats good” but ca budget is so deep in the hole that i highly doubt that this will do very much, but actually put people out of work. there are better ways to fix the budget than to deny a man and woman a basic human right. you may feel marriage is forever, so make yours last forever, but dont impose your biblical beliefs on the rest of us.
Ok, let’s go that route for a second. Divorce should be illegal because it discriminates against certain religious groups and thus is establishment of religion. Marriage should be also not be recognized by the state at all- because it discriminates against certain religious groups and thus is establishment of religion. Murder should not be illegal- you’re discriminating against cannibals. etc.
In other words- the law is a religion in and of itself, and having laws can be construed as establishment of religion. Congratulations, you’ve just effectively made the Constitution contradict itself!
Oh, and better a child who learns that people argue in marriage and work things out, than a child who can only see his father 96 hours a month.
Listen: There is NO separation of Church and State, despite what the Godless liberals say. This is a Christian country, and the law of the land is the Bible. The voice of Jesus Christ trumps that of our Muslim “president” any day of the week, and any attempt to legalize marriage equality will unleash the forces of the God Warriors.
Tea Partiers will be voting for Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and Michele Bachmann in 2012. And if we lose, there will be HELL TO PAY!
And you people think I’m bigoted….man, I’m the center of the road compared with the tea baggers.
Oh, and Joe- let me know if Glen Beck ever exceeds a ten share on his ratings. I once heard, in the early days before he got too crazy for me, Rush say that he’d never run for politics- because in radio a ten share in a given market is good, but in votes, a ten share is a horrible loss.
Look inside yourself Ted and see your sin. Not me but God says you are wieghed in the balance and found wanting. Joe the plumber is right on when he says there IS no seperation of church & state and cant be because America is the new Promised Land and we are the chosen people if we only would step up. Just like God’s modern Prophet George W. Bush says, the “constitution” is a piece of paper and the Bible is the Word of God, now which would you rather have as the base of our laws? We need this new law. We need it so the Bible can begin to become our law. We must outlaw all deviant sex, stone a few masterbaters to death as the Bible says and people will shape up really quick.
Son of Thunder: Then why do we have such an anti-Christian Constitution? Why do we not have a King appointed by God instead of a President Voted on By Man?
And if George W Bush is such a prophet, why can’t he keep his own promise to the American People of Vengeance on Osama Bin Laden? What a bad prophet you have- he can’t even find one old man with a kidney machine.
this is absolutely hilarious. the bible is a wonderful and entertaining WORK OF FICTION. why would anyone with at least a partial brain want to follow any kind of rule, or for that matter believe any “story,” from that WORK OF FICTION? promoting “marriage equality” is extremely discriminatory. think about this : evolution has happened and will continue to happen, and it has nothing to do with god, but people try to argue that “creationism” is how the world came to be, and that adam and eve coexised with dinosaurs. marriages have happened between TWO PEOPLE WHO LOVE EACH OTHER, regardless of sexual orientation, race, and religious beliefs, and such events will continue to happen as long as people have the right and will to think for themselves.
you people make me sick.
Well, since you bring it up- what is the evolutionary purpose of love and monogamy to begin with?
Isn’t it procreation? A trick of the hormones to perpetuate the species?
And doesn’t divorce and same sex marriages and marriages between infertile partners all make procreation impossible?
So if you believe in evolution, shouldn’t you either be for the perpetuation of the species, and thus for marriages only between fertile partners for as long as it takes to raise the children to be good citizens; OR against the continuation of the human species and thus be getting sterilized and avoiding marriage yourself?
And the above argument has *NOTHING* to do with the Bible, or religion, and *EVERYTHING* to do with evolution and the procreation of the species.
Ted, I’m glad you brought that up. “Marriage equality” radical activists forget two very important points:
- without marriage, heterosexuals would stop reproducing
- by allowing gays to get married, heterosexuals will stop getting married and they will stop reproducing, too.
Allowing gays to marry will singularly end the human race.
Or at least, Joe, that subset of the human race that chooses to practice it. Cultures are like species, they are not immune from the laws of evolution either. The last big group in the United States to deny procreation was the Christian Shaker Cult- they made chairs instead of having sex- and how many of them are still with us today? Maybe two or three, from a peak of several hundred back in the late 1800s.
Wow. I just really can’t believe how many people don’t get it. OF COURSE banning divorce is a terrible idea and completely unjustifiable by any standard of decency or constitutionality. It’s just as unjustifiable as banning same sex marriage. Any argument that can be made against sam sex marriage can also be made against divorce. But 52% of californians evidently found the same sex marriage ban justifiable, most of them on the basis of protecting “traditional marriage.” Seriously people. It’s the very horribleness of the idea that is the whole point. It’s supposed to show the hypocrisy of supporters of prop 8 taking away the right of gay people, while vehemently protecting their own right to divorce. Look at the protest signs, people. “You too can take away the civil rights of someone you do not know.” Do you really think that’s a serious sentiment. Really?
P.S. John. I should have said it’s not the webpage that is too subtle, but the commenters that are too good at roleplaying!
Some of us aren’t just good at roleplaying. Some of us came to Catholicism through Biology, in which case gay marriage and divorce are *OBVIOUSLY* anti-survival tactics that are only possible in a society that is rich enough to have families with multiple houses and doesn’t need the children for labor.
To me this current recession is the economic punishment (completely predictable punishment at that) for 40 years of divorce and abortion, which has severely damaged the ability of the United States to produce. OTOH, we now have globalization- so we don’t need to produce. We can just borrow money from China, who is currently paying their own economic price for 40 years of One Child Per Family policy by having to provide jobs to a couple of hundred million young men who will never be able to find a wife, because their parents kept killing off their sisters.
Compared with those problems, Same Sex Marriage is just the ability of young men who are too frightened of women to actually have a real marriage to play house, usually at the expense of the rest of society to prop up such non-productive slobs.
ted i really do hope you are just role playing. because if you truly believe women are on this earth for man to plant their seed, that is sick.
and really why would someone pretend to be gay? do you think that people like putting their lives at risk? do you think they enjoy gay bashing? it is not a choice!
and honestly you are on this wayyyy to much, get a life.
shelbs, what have I ever posted that gave you that idea? A child needs *BOTH* parents, father and mother, and the mother does a hell of a lot more than just “for man to plant their seed”.
“and really why would someone pretend to be gay?”
Because they’re afraid to face and live with the opposite sex, and all of the complications to life that having to live in a traditional marriage brings.
” do you think that people like putting their lives at risk? ”
No, but I think they find the thought of actually living with the opposite sex to be even more frightening. There ARE situations that are worse than the mere risk of death, for some people.
“do you think they enjoy gay bashing?”
No, but I think they find the company of the opposite sex worse than any gay bashing they might encounter.
“it is not a choice!”
Or at least, not a conscious one. Fear rarely is.
“and honestly you are on this wayyyy to much, get a life.”
Two posts here in the last 3 weeks…..but this is my life, opposing sin and speaking up for what is *RIGHT* rather than what is *expedient*.
Praise God, Ted is coming from such a blessed place, standing up for what is RIght as spoke to us by the holy Bible and only the King James Bible! America could be the new Promised Land and her Chosen People White, Right, and Full Of Christ’s Might, if only more of us would stand. If President Palin and her Master in Him, Todd, will have the faith to remove a few dangerus people and “ideas” from view, just see how God will bless those who obey Him!
Voters in my State of California need to pass a new law (ballot initiative) stating that, “Mormonism is not a real and true religious faith.” This law shall eliminate tax-exempt status of any LDS church and mormons will no longer be a protected-class status on the basis of religion.
Another law can state, “Only marriage between two adults of the same religious faith is valid or recognized in California.” So that young non-Mormon women (like myself) can protect ourselves from abusive, dishonest Mormon men, YES! =]
Nintendo u may be a sinner and play too many demonic video games but I do agree that Whole Bible Christianity must be the official religion of California, the Christian States of America, and the world. Only Christian couples who can have natural children should be able to get married.
Oy vay, I seriously need to cut back on the coffee.
DIVORCE MAKES BABY JESUS CRY. PERIOD.